BANTR: A Narrative Therapy Podcast

#15: Eight Questions with Navid, Mike, Tom and Will

In this episode, Will Sherwin asked Navid Zamani, Mike Giancola, and Tom to each share two questions they've found helpful in their psychotherapy practice.  We discussed each of them at a camping site in Cuyamaca State Park near San Diego during Will's bachelor camping trip weekend before he got married in August 2022.
 
The questions are:
 
1) [2:15]  "If you'd had yourself as a parent, what difference would this have made to your life?" -- Michael White
 
2) [22:30] "Can you tell me a time where someone's believed in you?"
 
3) [27:40] "What does family mean to you?"
 
4) [44:15] "Can you tell me about your erotic self?" 
 
5) [58:00] "What would love do?" -- Luke Quinn
 
6) [1:02:15] "How did you come to know that?"
 
7) [1:06:20] "Imagine, down the line, your kids are talking about you and talking about this time.  What story would you want them to share about you as a Dad?"
 
8) [1:14:36] "What's the animal that you connect with when this problem is most impactful in your life?"
 
The watercolor painting of the manzanita trees near our campsite used as the episode image was done on location "en plen air" by Will Sherwin.
The guitar music in the episode is played by Will Sherwin.

#14: Dr. Danielle Drake

On this episode Will Sherwin talks with Dr. Danielle Drake from the San Francisco Bay Area.  Danielle performs two of her spoken word poems, we discuss African-centered psychologies, her journey to becoming a clinical psychologist, song lyrics evocative of therapeutic principles, teaching narrative and expressive arts practices at CIIS, sky-diving and more!
Danielle is on the core faculty of the California Institute of Integral Studies’ Expressive Arts Program in San Francisco, CA.  She is also a PhD. candidate at the Fielding Graduate University in Santa Barbara.  Her dissertation is entitled, “Spirituality and Creativity Among Culturally Empowered African-Americans: A Legacy of Empowered Community Liberation.”
Danielle Drake can be reached at dydrake@ciis.edu and she would love to hear your reflections.
Show Notes:
[35:19} “The challenge mindset” from the book:
The Triumph of the Soul:  Cultural and Psychological Aspects of African American Music
by Ferdinand Jones, Arthur C. Jones, ed.
 
[39:36]  “I feel the other, I dance the other, therefore I am.” — Leopold Sedar Senghor.
[47:32}  Gregory Porter — “Painted on Canvas”
 
[1:10:27]  “The will to adorn”
[1:11:48]  Outkast — “So Fresh, So Clean”
 
[1:16:01]  Carolyn Malachi — “Beautiful Dreamer”
Originally published on May 25, 2018.

#13: Art Fisher & Nancy MacDonald on Trauma-Informed Care

On this episode Will Sherwin and Scott Ralston talk with Art Fisher and Nancy MacDonald, co-founders of the Nova Scotia Trauma-Informed Network and Directors of the Family Service Agencies of Western and Eastern Nova Scotia respectively.  We discuss honoring people’s response-skills to violence, thinking critically about the language of trauma-informed care, the social determinants of health, “going rogue” and more.
Art Fisher can be reached at art.fisher@ns.sympatico.ca
Nancy MacDonald can be reached nmacdonald@fsens.ns.ca
 
Will Sherwin, LMFT works in Irvine, CA and can be reached at wwsherwin@gmail.com
Scott Ralston, LCSW works in Oakland, CA and can be reached at smr@there.net
 
Show References:
CHNET-WORKS! Webinar #437 Family Violence Prevention – Building Trauma Informed Communities with Nancy McDonald and Art Fisher.
“Health, Illness, Men and Masculinities (HIMM): a theoretical framework for understanding men and their health” by Dr. Blye Frank.
Decolonizing Trauma Work by Renee Linklater.
 
Originally published on March 25, 2018.

#12: Painted Brain

On this episode Will Sherwin talked with contributors of Painted Brain: Kazuki Takizawa, James Giaquinto, Tristan Scremin, Naomi Barrett, and Angela Tuckerman.  Painted Brain is a Los Angeles-based organization that creates lasting community-based solutions to mental health challenges and the impact of social injustice through arts, advocacy, and enterprise.
 
 
 
We discuss Painted Brain‘s history, personal stories of navigating mental health systems, principles and practices of making a “cool place to hangout”, and lots more.
 
 
 
Painted Brain‘s new headquarters is located at 5980 W Pico Blvd Los Angeles, CA 90035.
 
 
Visit their website at paintedbrain.org
 
Episode originally published November 25, 2017.

#11: Dr. Travis Heath on Hip Hop and Narrative Therapy

Travis Heath and Will Sherwin sat down at ReauthoringTeaching.com’s 2017 Narrative Camp to discuss Travis’s work using hip hop and narrative therapy, subverting the systems of academia, police murder of young people of color in the United States, and more. Dr. Travis Heath is a psychologist in private practice, associate professor of psychology at MSU Denver and has served as a team consultant in the NBA. He can be reached at heatht@msudenver.edu
 
[23:54] Oli — “Closer to My Dreams
[45:18] Public Enemy – “We Got Game”
“We Got Game” lyrics here.
[48:50] Lauryn Hill – “Black Rage”
“Black Rage” lyrics here.
[50:34] J Cole – “Be Free”
“Be Free” lyrics here.
[1:32:36] Narrativa-Mente Podcast by Luigi Frezza
[1:34:17] – Saas – “Lonely Conscious”
Facebook: WolfSasuke
All instrumental tracks were produced by The Passion HiFi.

#10: L.A. PoMo Gathering Song Lyrics Discussion Panel

Will Sherwin facilitated and recorded a conversation about songs evocative of narrative practice principles at the Los Angeles PoMo Gathering, April 9th, 2017 with five other therapists from Los Angeles: Charley Lang, Pritika Sehgal, Kerry Thorne, Lucy Cotter, and Larry Zucker.
Send questions, comments, or suggestions to wwsherwin@gmail.com.
 
The songs:
[3:24] “Sweet Inspiration” by The Sweet Inspirations, 1967 (written by Dan Penn and Spooner Oldham, Muscle Shoals, AL USA).Song lyrics here. 
[14:41] “The Words Don’t Fit the Picture” by Willie Nelson, 1972 (Texas, USA).Song lyrics here. 
[30:00] “A Song of Survival” by David Denborough, Dulwich Centre (Adelaide, Australia). http://dulwichcentre.com.au/songs/
[41:46] “Rose From the Concrete” by artists involved with Beats, Rhymes, and Life Inc., brl-inc.org.  2015 (Oakland, CA USA)
[54:03] “Powerful Man” by Hop Along, 2015 (Philadelphia, PA USA).
hopalong.bandcamp.com/
Song lyrics here.
[1:17:36] “Done It Again” by Friendly Males, Los Angeles, 2015.
 friendlymales.bandcamp.com/ 
 
Episode artwork by Lucy Cotter

#9: Collective Audio Bouquet

On this episode Will Sherwin compiled short excerpts from existing podcasts and radio shows from 2005-2015 featuring the voices of narrative therapists.
[1:33]  Michael White (Adelaide, South Australia)Listen to the full episode on the “All in the Mind” radio programOctober 2005 interview by Gretchen Miller on narrative therapy principles, katharsis, the story of Frederick, stream of consciousness, memory and trauma.
“There are often storylines that contradict the dominant storyline and I sometimes think about them as the subordinate stories of life. We can play a part in helping people to redevelop these stories of life and to elevate them and they provide a foundation for possibility in life.”
“If in some way they were moved on account of witnessing this performance then it was kathartic. The word moved was generally meant in much broader terms like if on account of witnessing this, the person had new understandings about aspects of their own history or if they’d re-engaged with values that had been precious to them that they had forsaken. or if they had new ideas for conversations with members of their own family etc. then it was kathartic, it had been literally transporting of them.”
[9:27]  Donald Bubenzer, PhD. (Kent, Ohio)Listen to the full episode on the Counselor Audio Source podcast and read the show notes.June 2006 interview by Tom Newman discussing narrative therapy principles, letter-writing, Michael White, and more.  Dr. Bubenzer is a Professor at Kent State University.
[19:31]  Walter Bera, PhD. (Minneapolis, Minnesota)Listen to the full episode on The Secular Buddhist podcastJune 2010 interview discussing ideas of self in Buddhism and Western psychology.Dr. Walter Bera is the Director of the Kenwood Therapy Center in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
[27:03]  Pamela Smithbell, MA, LLPC, NCC, SPADA (Suttons Bay, Michigan)Listen to the full episode on Harm Reduction Radio.May 2012 interview by Kenneth Anderson on postmodern and collaborative approaches to addiction treatments, meditation groups, and guided imagery.
[31:41]  Jay S. Levy, MSW, LICSW (Western Massachusetts)Listen to the full episode on Harm Reduction Radio.July 2012 interview by Kenneth Anderson on Levy’s book, “Homeless Narratives and Pretreatment Pathways: From Words to Housing”.  For more information visit Jay Levy’s website.
[35:50]  Chené Swart, PhD. (South Africa)Listen to the full episode on the Tamarack Institute podcast.January 2014 interview by The Tamarack Institute on the power of community in storytelling and the power of storytelling in community.Dr. Chene Swart is based out of South Africa and does international training, coaching, and consulting applying a re-authoring approach to co-constructing alternative narratives that guide communal and individual agency.  For more information on Chené Swart visit her website here.
[39:04]  Art Fisher and Nancy McDonald (Nova Scotia, Canada)Listen to the full episode at CHNET-Works! #437 Family Violence Prevention webinarFebruary 2015 webinar on trauma-informed counseling including a critical discussion of the dominant ways of talking about trauma and new definitions of trauma. Nancy MacDonald is Director of Family Service of Eastern Nova Scotia and Art Fisher is Director of Family Service of Western Nova Scotia.   Visit their website at www.fswns.org
[46:08]  Lorraine Hedtke, PhD. (Santa Barbara, California)Listen to the full episode on the Good Grief Voice America podcast.August 12, 2015 interview by Cheryl Jones on narrative-informed principles of grief based on “saying hullo again” instead of saying goodbye.
Lorraine Hedtke MSW, ACSW, LCSW, Ph.D. is the program coordinator and an associate professor of counseling and guidance & PPS Credential program, San. She is also the proprietor of The Fabula Center a counseling and training center in Redlands, California.  For more information visit her website at rememberingpractices.com
[53:14] Ana Louise Keating, PhD. (Dallas, Texas)Listen to the full episode on The Radical Therapist podcast.August 23, 2015 interview by Dr. Chris Hoff on her book “Transformation Now! Toward a Post-Oppositional Politics of Change”. They discuss both oppositional approaches to change along with alternatives to opposition.
The Radical Therapist has many great episodes exploring the intersections of collaborative therapy, philosophy, art, and science & technology in a post-Freud, post-psychology world. Chris Hoff has recently started The Radical Therapist YouTube channel as well.
 
Email Will Sherwin at wwsherwin@gmail.com with comments or questions.
 
Originally released on March 8, 2017.

#8: Katherine Moore, LMFT on Child Protective Services

Katherine Moore shares principles, stories, and critiques from her 17.2 years in child protective services.
 
This episode was originally published November 30th, 2016
 
 

#7: Dr. Marc Komori-Stager

In this episode of BANTR Radio, Marc Komori-Stager, PhD. and Will Sherwin, MFT discuss the playful metaphors of the mind, imagination and emotions illustrated in the Pixar film Inside Out. We discuss the film using a variety of common narrative terms like externalization, agency, and values and examine cultural discourses on emotions.
Dr. Marc is creatively referencing the characters in the film in psychotherapy with children in his private practice at eastbayfamilytherapy.com in Walnut Creek, CA.
Also, check out Narrative Therapy India’s article on Inside Out, “Externalising, the Pixar Way”.
 
Note this podcast was originally published on January 18, 2016

#6: Peggy Sax, PhD.

Peggy Sax talked with Will Sherwin about her history with narrative therapy, reclaiming community out of personal catastrophe, and ReauthoringTeaching.com.
 
Peggy is actively involved in the study of dialogic and narrative approaches through therapeutic conversations, teaching activities and online learning communities. First and foremost, Peggy is a practitioner. Her work as an international workshop presenter, consultant and online study group host is imbued with learning from firsthand experiences as a family therapist and licensed psychologist in her small town New England community.
Peggy Sax can be contacted at peggysax@gmail.com and you can get involved in her learning community at reauthoringteaching.com.
This episode was originally published September 18, 2015.